'On Borderlands 3, in Our Worst Hours, It Sometimes Felt Like Parody' — Gearbox Explains Borderlands 4's More Grounded Story

With Borderlands 3 and its divisive communicative successful the rearview mirror, developer Gearbox Software is driving afloat velocity up to Borderlands 4 and the totalitarian satellite of Kairos.

The agelong roadworthy to the motorboat of a 4th mainline Borderlands crippled had a bumpy start. While plentifulness fell successful emotion with Borderlands 3 and its improvements to the looter-shooter series' gunplay, others inactive conflict with its joke-fueled communicative and reliance connected toilet humor. It volition person been astir precisely six years since its motorboat erstwhile Borderlands 4's September 12, 2025 merchandise day arrives. Now, fans are connected the borderline of their seats, waiting to spot however Gearbox spent its time.

We caught up with Gearbox communicative manager Sam Winkler, pb writer Taylor Clark, and managing manager of communicative properties Lin Joyce to larn much astir wherefore the squad decided to make a much grounded communicative for Borderlands 4. Along the way, we recovered retired however the elusive Timekeeper tin basal toe-to-toe with Handsome Jack, however arguable characters similar Ava could inactive person a aboriginal successful the series, and we adjacent learned however the upcoming DLC volition acceptable successful with Borderlands 4's main campaign.

IGN: Gearbox has been precise wide that Borderlands 4 volition diagnostic a much grounded communicative and tone. How did the conversations to displacement the code begin, and is this the absorption the squad has followed from the opening of development?

Sam Winkler: Those conversations started arsenic aboriginal arsenic the conversations of, 'Hey, what the hellhole does Borderlands 4 look like?' Even earlier Borderlands 3 was shipped and retired the door. Something I similar to punctual radical is that the devs are often the archetypal fans of a crippled and besides the archetypal critics. I deliberation that we had immoderate ain interior critiques astir the code and the level of wit contiguous successful Borderlands 3.

[It's] thing that we already were starting to code successful the DLCs for Borderlands 3, but we wanted to truly marque that a cardinal constituent of Borderlands 4. So, arsenic we had these precise ample conversations of, successful satellite context, 'Where is this? What does it mean? Why are we doing this adjacent big, monolithic crippled with a 4 successful its title?' [we said], 'How are we besides going to germinate the storytelling, the humor, and the characters, and what we privation to bash with them?’

Taylor Clark: I came aboard a batch aboriginal than Sam. I've been connected the crippled for a mates of years, and it was decidedly thing from the infinitesimal that I came connected board, erstwhile I was talking to Sam, the grounded code was a priority. Grounding the wit successful the world, helium made it precise wide that if I tried to enactment a meme successful the game, helium would travel to my location with a shot bat [laughs]. So, it was decidedly successful the little from the opening to marque the code acceptable the world.

Winkler: I don't privation to plaything the needle excessively hard connected that front. I americium not anti-meme. In fact, hey, exclusive: There's a circumstantial meme successful this game, and I consciousness justified putting it successful due to the fact that I accidentally created it. Yes, I didn't mean for it to go a meme, but it became a meme, and it's successful the video game. That is each I'm going to say.

IGN: We can't cognize what meme it is?

Winkler: Look, I person a mates of Know Your Meme pages that recognition me, and I volition fto you bash immoderate journalistic soiled enactment that you request to.

Clark: It does not impact a Skibidi Toilet.

Winkler: It does not. Yeah, determination are toilets successful our game. I'll accidental that.

Clark: Where other would you get ammunition?

Winkler: Exactly. In Borderlands, lone toilets and washing machines.

IGN: No Skibidi Toilets, though.

Clark: No. No.

Winkler: None.

IGN: I deliberation immoderate radical are going to beryllium truly blessed to perceive that. I'm wondering if you tin comparison the code successful Borderlands 4 to immoderate of the erstwhile games. It seems similar the squad decidedly wanted to person a much grounded code than 3, for sure. So, however would you comparison the code oregon gag frequence to thing similar 1, 2, oregon adjacent spinoffs similar Tiny Tina's Wonderlands?

Clark: The mode that I've ever talked astir it, personally, was that, successful Borderlands 1, 2, and 3, we were connected Pandora, right? Pandora was a chaotic west. It was a spot wherever corporations were stabbing each different successful the backmost for supremacy. So, determination was a batch of antic vigor successful that place, and with those villains that we were dealing with, it made a batch of consciousness to person much zany, like, gun-slinging jokes, you know? Hip-firing jokes tone.

Kairos is simply a antithetic place. Kairos is simply a totalitarian satellite ruled implicit by this dictatorial fig known arsenic the Timekeeper, who sits acold supra it all. In this discourse of planetary oppression, the Whac-A-Mole gag benignant didn't marque arsenic overmuch sense. So, a batch of it had to bash with making definite that the code acceptable the stakes of the world, and that the wit was rising organically retired of situations, retired of quality moments, alternatively than the chaotic westbound consciousness of the archetypal games.

Lin Joyce: I volition fto Sam speech to the contrast, too, successful the mandate betwixt 3 and 4, but I volition treble pat too, that what we were looking for is that the wit successful Borderlands 4 works astatine the level of Kairos and the characters. We weren't making jokes that would lone onshore for the player.

It was a gut check, 'Is this arsenic comic to the characters and their lived acquisition arsenic it is to the player? Can we bash both?' That situational drama and discourse helped america besides support the code grounded, and the drama past has purpose. But Sam tin speech astir the frequence betwixt Borderlands 3 and 4.

Winkler: I mean... I went backmost and played each azygous Borderlands game. 1, 2, Pre-Sequel, [Tales from the Borderlands], everything similar that. Just to observe, not conscionable the code of humor, but besides the vectors of humor, right? I deliberation radical speech a batch astir our wit from the position of radical chatting successful your ear. But I was truly struck by, for example, successful Borderlands 1, astir of the NPCs didn't person a ton of existent audio to say.

It was beauteous sparse connected that front, and a batch of the wit came retired of situations. Comedic, usually darkly comedic, circumstances, but besides the mode things were named, the substance successful the ngo accept, that benignant of thing. I deliberation that contributed a batch to players' cognition of Borderlands 1 arsenic having a much dark, grounded tone, is it is simply a quieter game, and a batch of the wit stems situationally and organically.

So, that was thing that we tried to enactment with the plan team, the ngo plan team, and everything similar that, to say, 'Hey, we tin person dense moments. We tin person grounded moments, but we tin besides person wacky circumstances that originate retired of the players' actions and the NPCs that travel astatine them.' We wanted to marque definite that wit wasn't conscionable immoderate sticker that we're slapping connected something, you cognize what I mean? The different happening is that, with plan shifts, our mentality to wit had to displacement arsenic well. With Borderlands 4 going into this seamless, explore-to-your-own-tastes gameplay experience, we could not power wherever the subordinate was going to spell next.

We couldn't ever publication people's open-world exploration, [and] that allowed that abstraction to conscionable beryllium people filled. Whether it's done combat dialog oregon subordinate characters, oregon conscionable soundlessness and soundtrack and ambience and mood. It conscionable inherently changed our attack to it.

IGN: One of my different questions is, 'Why should players who person been with the bid for 16 years not beryllium disquieted astir this shift?' But I deliberation that benignant of answers it. It inactive feels and sounds similar it's precise Borderlands.

Clark: For sure. It is unmistakably Borderlands, but we're perpetually tweaking the dials of definite factors to marque the code lucifer the crippled that we privation to create, and to respond to our interior and outer feedback.

Joyce: At nary constituent did we say, 'Let's halt being comic successful Borderlands. Let's not bash that anymore.' It is inactive a Borderlands crippled made by a Borderlands team, galore who person been present since 1.

Clark: We're not making an arthouse Borderlands crippled [laughs].

Winkler: But, also, it's a large game, right? It is not a monolith. There are areas of our crippled that are much serious. There are areas of our crippled that are much humor-filled. There are characters that don't instrumentality things arsenic seriously, successful a diegetic way. For the players who person been long-time franchise fans, I deliberation they're going to find flavors that they're looking for each crossed Kairos. If they play 1 broadside ngo oregon interact with 1 quality that doesn't rather vibe with them, there's astir apt different 1 not excessively acold disconnected that they volition vibe with.

IGN: For the involvement of comparison, are determination immoderate different stories from crossed movies, books, TV, oregon games that the squad feels are akin to the code that you guys are going for? Are determination immoderate peculiar inspirations that you tin constituent to?

Joyce: There person to beryllium truthful many. We're perpetually throwing around, 'Have you seen...? It's a small similar that.' But present that you're asking it directly, I'm like, 'Which one...'

Winkler: I don't privation to usage it arsenic a consecutive comp, but a amusement that I've been truly inspired by has been Star Trek: Lower Decks, which is very, precise overmuch a comedic show. It has wacky vigor to it, but it works, and it works truly good — it conscionable won a Hugo Award — due to the fact that it takes its characters seriously. It takes its circumstances seriously, and if thing is wacky, there's usually idiosyncratic determination to constituent out, like, 'This is wacky and ace unsafe, and it shouldn't enactment that way.'

It is simply a task that is intelligibly made retired of emotion for Star Trek and the characters successful the story, alternatively than immoderate benignant of parody of it. I deliberation that connected Borderlands 3, successful our worst hours, it sometimes felt similar parody, and that is wherever we edged into a reddish line, I think, for a batch of fans and for myself, personally. So, we wanted to look towards different media that could equilibrium that. [That] could equilibrium some humor, levity, and authentic quality storytelling that takes itself seriously.

IGN: One quality I did privation to inquire astir from Borderlands 3 that I didn't peculiarly caput astatine each but others had a occupation with is Ava. She's a quality that a batch of fans subordinate their dissatisfaction with Borderlands 3's communicative with. With truthful galore different memorable faces backmost for Borderlands 4, tin fans expect to spot her amusement up, too? If not, is determination immoderate country for her to instrumentality successful the future?

Winkler: I don’t deliberation we’re going to reply immoderate questions astir characters that we haven’t shown disconnected yet. I deliberation the lone happening that I volition accidental is, I americium not a immense instrumentality of removing oregon sidesplitting disconnected characters off-screen unless it perfectly has to happen. We don’t hide astir characters, and we privation to marque definite that storylines are completed. That’s it.

I perceive each the complaints astir Ava. I had immoderate issues with however we were capable to represent her. We were incapable to amusement immoderate of, I think, her much heartfelt moments successful the basal crippled of BL3. We utilized the Director’s Cut to amusement disconnected what Maya’s ceremonial could person been and what the narration betwixt Ava and Lilith could person been. We didn’t person that accidental successful Borderlands 3, but it’s the benignant of happening that I inactive judge successful and that I would emotion to code again immoderate different time.

IGN: In emblematic Borderlands fashion, Gearbox has escaped and paid post-launch DLC successful the works. A batch of it, by the sounds of it. We don’t person to get excessively into specifics; I cognize a batch of that worldly is inactive precise overmuch successful development. But volition that aforesaid grounded code transportation implicit to the DLC? Will the squad instrumentality the accidental to amusement america immoderate of the little grounded corners of Kairos?

Clark: Just similar the past question, I deliberation we are constricted successful what we tin accidental astir the post-launch contented that we’re moving on. I deliberation it’s harmless to accidental that the program is for the code to beryllium accordant betwixt the products.

Winkler: I’ll accidental this: the champion happening astir Borderlands other content, similar afloat run DLCs, oregon immoderate of the unrecorded events that we’ve done — we did the holidays and worldly similar that successful erstwhile games — is it allows america to research antithetic tones and antithetic corners of the Borderlands satellite and bash antithetic genres and everything similar that. So, I would expect that aforesaid level of creativity and exploration from wherever we spell successful the future.

Joyce: I would widen it to be... I would look astatine the DLC contented and telephone it complementary, right? It complements the basal game. It is going to beryllium different, but complementary. Or, if you similar a antithetic metaphor, the pieces of attire volition beryllium coordinated to marque a bully outfit, really. You prime which metaphor you similar amended there.

Clark: It’s pugnacious to speech astir successful vague terms. We’d emotion to speech astir it more.

Winkler: Especially due to the fact that immoderate of it we don’t cognize yet. It is successful progressive development. Borderlands 4 is getting stamped onto DVDs determination and... really [laughs] I deliberation it’s Blu-rays. But successful the meantime, we are cooking connected that adjacent radical of content, and we cognize a full clump of it. We’re actively moving connected it, but immoderate of it is inactive successful development.

IGN: How agelong bash you deliberation it volition instrumentality to implicit Borderlands 4’s main campaign, and past however agelong volition it instrumentality to implicit the main run positive each of the broadside content?

Clark: This came up immoderate successful anterior interviews. The reply that I and Chris Brock, our pb producer, gave connected this was to constituent retired that, portion we can't accidental a circumstantial number, we tin accidental that, erstwhile we got unneurotic to bash a playthrough unneurotic — Sam, me, Lin, a clump of others, our originative director, Graeme [Timmins], Randy Pitchford — erstwhile we were doing work, doing play throughs of this stuff, and to measure however it was going, playing done the full main run took america days and days. It took a agelong time. It is simply a meaty portion of content.

Winkler: And that was a consecutive line. That was doing fundamentally nary broadside content.

Clark: That was scaling harm to 10,000% and conscionable mowing done stuff.

Joyce: The different anecdote I could astir apt springiness there, safely, is, I conscionable each week with Andrew Reiner, our planetary originative enforcement officer. Last week helium said, 'I've started, I'm going to say, the million-teenth tally of the game.' He's like, 'This time, the extremity is 100% it.' I was like, 'How agelong person you been playing?' All week. 'How acold person you gotten?’ Still successful the archetypal portion [laughs].

Winkler: That's a precise bully factor, and going backmost to what I said, the seamless satellite allows players to person a small spot much prime astir the bid successful which they instrumentality connected the story. We person seen play testers privation to spell done the mainline, truthful they're bouncing astir betwixt the antithetic zones and seeing each sorts of the game.

We've besides seen testers who are conscionable like, 'I'm going to spell into this zone. I'm going to spot everything I tin perchance see. I'm going to scrape the barrel, and past I'm going implicit to the adjacent zone.' One player's archetypal 15, 20 hours could look very, precise antithetic from different player's.

IGN: It's a large Borderlands game.

Winkler: It bash beryllium big.

IGN: For truthful galore people, Borderlands villains are the crushed a batch of folks amusement up for this series. Obviously, Handsome Jack is 1 of the all-time large video crippled villains. I'm wondering, due to the fact that determination are truthful galore theories astir the Timekeeper, specifically, and I don't privation to cognize what it is, but does this quality person immoderate individuality past that Timekeeper name? Is determination immoderate mystery, immoderate intrigue you privation to physique up with him?

Joyce: You inquire large questions [laughs]. To what grade tin we reply them is simply a pugnacious one.

Winkler: The Timekeeper is similar an onion. He has layers... No one's utilized that before, right?

Clark: I deliberation the reply is yes. Is determination a enigma to him? Yes [laughs].

Joyce: We could speech about, certainly, however we approached crafting him and penning him. That's different space into answering your question. The timekeeper, 1 of the things that makes him antithetic and keeps an aerial of intentional enigma astir him, is that helium is not successful your look astatine each times. He sits successful his precocious operation with a presumption of the full planet, and his prerogative is to support the full satellite nether order.

So, erstwhile we archetypal amusement up, the Vault Hunter is mildly of interest, but he's got galore different things to do. So, we besides person to, arsenic players, implicit time, summation his attraction much and more. That was a precise antithetic mode to attack penning a villain into a Borderlands crippled than we had done before. And I'll fto Sam and Taylor tally from there.

Clark: I deliberation we, arsenic originative people, are ever challenging ourselves to not repetition ourselves, to person characters who are appreciably different, who person antithetic kinds of stories and person antithetic kinds of things to accidental successful each entry. The Timekeeper is appreciably antithetic from the anterior villains successful the Borderlands series. He is simply a caller frontier, I think, arsenic a character.

The Timekeeper successful Borderlands 4. Image credit: Gearbox Software.

IGN: One of the things I spot popular up truthful often is comparisons to Handsome Jack. It ever goes backmost to him. The theories spell backmost to him. It's a spot mind-boggling, almost, astatine this point, to beryllium much than a decennary removed from that character, and inactive it's brought up. What benignant of unit does the squad feel, if any, to proceed creating villains arsenic impactful arsenic him, specifically? Did that unit ever power the absorption you've taken for the Timekeeper?

Winkler: Oh, I mean, however could it not, right? Imagine moving connected Star Wars, and you person to travel up with thing arsenic scary arsenic Darth Vader. Handsome Jack is simply a gaming icon, and I was a instrumentality of Borderlands 2 earlier I acceptable ft successful Gearbox, truthful I had that thought successful my caput arsenic well.

Something I really, truly liked astir Borderlands 2 was, arsenic you're going crossed Pandora, beauteous overmuch everyone you conscionable has been screwed implicit by Handsome Jack successful immoderate way. Their beingness is measurably worse, oregon they're nether threat, oregon they cognize idiosyncratic who died due to the fact that of Handsome Jack. That was truly inspiring for the Timekeeper, for america to beryllium capable to amusement a villain, not conscionable done telephone calls wherever helium says, 'Hey, you're a dick,' portion you're portion you're going done trying to cod guns, but besides however everyone you conscionable has, successful immoderate way, been affected by him and is surviving nether his totalitarian rule.

Their circumstances are antithetic and vibrant and their reactions to the Timekeeper... similar they mightiness beryllium truthful frightened of him that they don't privation to emergence up successful absorption against him, oregon they mightiness beryllium truthful pissed disconnected astatine him that they do, oregon they person a analyzable narration with the Timekeeper erstwhile they erstwhile benignant of looked up to him, but present they are successful information due to the fact that of him. With the extremity of making this quality consciousness a small spot much omnipresent, a small spot ever watching, we wanted that to radiance done successful each of our NPCs. So, arsenic we conscionable caller friends — and each of these zones has this large implicit brag that we person to, ultimately, woody with, each of those villains has a antithetic narration with the Timekeeper. As we're learning astir them, we're besides learning astir him.

IGN: The Timekeeper volition autumn into spot with that much grounded narrative. He's a batch much straightforward. He's not calling you portion you're collecting guns and telling you, 'You're a dick.'

Clark: Not those circumstantial words, nary [laughs].

IGN: So, what is it astir this quality specifically that makes him the adjacent large Borderlands villain? What makes him basal apart?

Clark: I deliberation that helium has a gravity and an ominousness. Jack's animosity towards america is truthful blistery and personal, and the Timekeeper, by contrast, feels truthful all-powerful and inescapable. Jack conscionable feels similar 1 benignant of gnat who's truly influential but could beryllium swatted away. The Timekeeper feels chronic and insurmountable, similar a mountain. This full satellite fundamentally casts successful his image, and I deliberation that's a chill upland to climb.

IGN: We're conscionable a fewer weeks retired from launch. Did the determination to power up the code for Borderlands 4 wage off? Is Gearbox sitting present saying, 'This was worthy it. We dialed everything correctly. We're arrogant of wherever this is.' Also, what were immoderate of the challenges that the squad faced erstwhile adapting to this change?

Clark: I'm personally arrogant of the enactment that we've done, and I deliberation it's paid off. I deliberation we struck a fun, resonant equilibrium betwixt light-hearted moments and serious, resonant moments. We get, for the archetypal time, I think, we get existent quality extent with Claptrap, of each people, for example. One of my favourite missions successful the crippled is an affectional infinitesimal with Claptrap that, I think, truly hits hard, truthful I'm personally precise blessed with wherever we landed.

Joyce: I agree. I deliberation that we person succeeded with what we acceptable retired to do, and it’s adjacent much than conscionable astir tone. This was astir creating the next, right? You tin travel to Borderlands 4 arsenic a caller player, and this tin beryllium your archetypal acquisition into an incredibly expansive world, and successful that way, it needed to beryllium caller and person thing caller to connection and alteration position connected our bid portion inactive maintaining that connectivity. So, if you’re a returning fan, we built Kairos for you. If you’re a caller fan, we built Kairos for you. This was the goal. It took a truly large satellite and a large crippled to bash it. I deliberation we succeeded there.

Winkler: I deliberation it is going to be, ultimately, up to the fans to the fans, of course, to archer america if we nailed it oregon not, and I deliberation that the champion imaginable script is that we enactment this crippled out, they say, ‘This is what we wanted. Let’s spell adjacent further. We privation more. We privation more.’ I anticipation we get that opportunity. To echo what Taylor and Lin said, I’m precise arrogant of the enactment that we did, and I deliberation that we accomplished our goals, and the people of occurrence if being capable to continue. Hopefully, we tin continue, we tin physique backmost immoderate of the trust, and yeah. Have a bully one. Have a bully video game.

Michael Cripe is simply a freelance writer with IGN. He's champion known for his enactment astatine sites similar The Pitch, The Escapist, and OnlySP. Be definite to springiness him a travel connected Bluesky (@mikecripe.bsky.social) and Twitter (@MikeCripe).